IAN MACKAYE IS A IRREDEEMABLE RACIST. Exhibit A.
An excerpt of a conversation between Vic Bondi, Ian Mackaye, and Dave Dictor. You should read the whole thing because it is ri-cock-ulous. I’m not even going to negate the janky shit any of these guys say because, uh, it speaks for itself. Oh, and Mackaye is still saying the same misguided shit.
Vic Bondi: What does “Guilty Of Being White” mean? That’s a song that can be mis-construed.
Ian Mackaye: Not at all, I don’t think. But I’ll explain it. I live in Washington, D.C., which is 75% black. My junior high was 90% black. My high school was 80% black, and throughout my entire life, I’ve been brought up in this whole thing where the white man was shit because of slavery. So I go to class and we do history, and for 3/4 of the year slavery is all we hear about. It’s all we hear about. We will race through the Revolutionary War or the founding of America; we’d race through all that junk. It’s just straight education. We race through everything, and when we’d get to slavery, they’d drag it all the way out. Then everything has to do with slavery or black people. You get to the 1950’s, they don’t talk about nothing except the black people. Even WWII, they talk about the black regiments. In English, we don’t read all the novelists, we read all the black novelists. Every week is African King’s Week. And after a while, I would come out of a history class, and this has happened to me many times, like in junior high school, and you know that kids are belligerent in junior high, and these kids would jack my ass up and say, “What the fuck, man, why are you putting me in slavery?” To me, racism is never going to end until people get off this whole thing. It’s going flim-flam, back and forth. When people will just get off the whole guilt trip… First, all the white people were like “Fuck the niggers”, and all of a sudden, it’s “The black man is great. We love him. We’re going to do everything for him,” all the time. It’s never going to get anywhere, because one generation it’ll be the KKK, the next generation it’ll be the Black Panthers. Now we see the KKK come back in again, more popular. I think the best way we’re going to have to deal with it is that if I am able to say “nigger” without everyone gasping, and if I’m able to say that word, because I don’t have any problems with that word. I say “bitch”, and that means a girl asshole. I might say “jock”, which means an athletic asshole. But you say “nigger”, which means black asshole, everyone flies off the handle. That’s where the racism thing is kind of fucked. That’s where the whole thing gets out of hand. I think it’d be great if people could come down form that. I’m sure you know about the racism thing.
V: I live in Chicago.
I: You just got over the most ugly fucking thing. And it’s ridiculous, man, for either side to feel like that. I mean, I’m white, fine. A hundred years ago, I was not alive. Twenty five years ago, I was not alive. So whatever happened a hundred years ago, I am not responsible for. No more than, since I’m Scottish, I should be responsible for the Celtics or whoever we fucked with then. Or the Egyptians should feel bad about the Israeli people. People have got to get off the guilt wagon. And I’m just saying I’m guilty of being white - it’s my one big crime. That’s why I get so much fucking shit at school, that’s why I cannot get on welfare in Washington, most likely. That’s why when we took the PSAT’s, when Jeff checked off the black box, he got awards, he got scholarships, he got all kinds of interest, but when he admitted he was white, all that was gone. Just like that. It’s ridiculous. I don’t think it’s fair.
V: You seem to totally not have any sense of group identity whatsoever. In this country… well, go ahead. You talk first and I’ll go from there.
I: Take my position, Dave. Remember my position.
D: I understand what you’re saying you’re doing as an individual who’s part of a fucked up system where to reverse the problems that they set in, you know, there’s such a bad self-image given to black people and their history has been almost wiped out. I’m not going to lay onto you that you accept the guilt part, but just what happened to the black people that got kidnapped out of Africa and shipped over here is really horrible, it’s really scarring. They’re trying to give a sense of identity and you know all that. A lot of bad things that have happened in the urban city situations have been at the expense of urban white people because all the rich people left and took all the money out to the suburbs and sent their kids off to private schools and out of the hell hole of public education in bigger cities. What I’m just trying to say to you is that it’s ok not to be guilty of being white, because I’m not saying you should feel guilty for being white, but don’t you be guilty of being ignorant about how there is still a lot of oppression of black people in this country. A quarter of black men will go to prison by the time they’re 60 years old. The economic and the educational opportunities for black people in this country are statistically worse than they are for white people. You could say, “Well, is it the chicken or the egg? Is it because they’re fucking up so bad that they’re not doing nothing, or is it that society’s fucking up so bad that they just can’t do nothing?” I might say it’s part of both. That’s just sociologically how I feel about that. You’re just expressing an emotion about how you feel towards something, and that’s ok.
I: But it’s simpler than that. I’m making a statement that I think the whole thing boils down to race. I would prefer to see the whole thing out of the way. There sure was a time when the Irish or the Jewish people in this country were getting a lot of fucking shit and just because they were white they had one good thing going for them. Things worked out eventually where the Irish people were just a part of this country. Whereas before, they were always made fun of, they were ostracized and treated like shit in general.
V: There’s a difference. Irish people came over here voluntarily and black people didn’t. When you come over to America and you get shit, you’re, “Great, but anything’s better than what I had. I’ll do anything I can to get my shit together here,” and you’re socially motivated towards it. Black people were never given that option. that kind of choice was never demanded of them. There’s talk about socializing black people into American society, assimilation-like other ethnic groups have been assimilated. The difference is that their set of standards in coming to this country wasn’t the same.
I: I understand what you’re saying. The point is that there are still ugly feelings. The main thing is that they’re a different color, and that’s the worst part. But what is guilt going to lead to? Dave?
D: I don’t think guilt is good at all.
I: No, I’m saying if someone made you constantly feel guilty, what do you think that may result in?
D: A resentment..
I: Thank you. And what would that resentment lead to? You just go right back. They’re going to beat me over the head about African kings and stuff to the point where I’m going to say “Well, fuck the African kings. And fuck the black people too. Fuck all this shit. I’ve had it, blah, blah, blah…” Guilty of being white. Well, fine. I’m not going to play it like that. It’s an unfortunate thing, but when I’m in Washington, D.C., I’m the minority, so I have a totally different view.
V: You can make the argument though, Ian, that it’s not going to change. If you say “Fuck this guilty shit, I ain’t gonna feel guilty. It’s not my fault.” They’re going to say, “Well, who the fucks fault is it?” It’s like, well, it’s nobody’s fault; it’s history. But the situation is that they’re still left with the remains of their historical past. Black people as a group still do not have the opportunity that white people as a group in this country have. What affirmative action and all that in the 60’s tried to do is instead try to set the clock a little bit ahead towards more of a point where we can accept each other as equals but different.
seriously, this is the kind of dude that puts the KKK together with the Black Panther Party. He is THAT kind of white guy. and nothing has really changed about his views on ‘Guilty of Being White’ since this interview. Fuck Ian Mackaye.
